No, it does not mean literal physical whipping, just as carrying our cross does not mean literal carrying a cross.When we crucify our flesh, we do not literally get crucified. God does not teach us a lesson by battering us down. You may interpret NT exhortations as law but they are not. Any good father teaches and lectures his sons when they err. God does discipline us, but in a loving way, not a rip your flesh out way. Jesus said that very few will find the narrow path. What book are you reading rlemere3@gmail.com, the maccabee bible lol? Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus is the “pioneer” of our faith. I had this very verse heaped on me by a religious volunteer at a state prison he and I minster at. Our own sins if we engage in sins that are deadly, could eventually destroy us. Scourging does not save us, but like the works that must follow faith to prove the faith is genuine, so too must scourging level of discipline. if you will notice with sheep it doesn’t take much to correct them,usually just a tap or a poke, Gods very nature Corinthians 13,reflects that, he does have anger, wrath, etc, but he is love [noun],his desire is that we are effective,salt with taste,if you will, but if we get tramped under foot,it is his nature to pick us up,dust us off and help us on our way,a major,major hurdle for me was rejection,but once i realized how accepted and loved i was,what a launching pad for grow that was,………….ok got it carry-on brothers and sisters..love is coming for us all..just thought Id throw in a little C-S-and-N, IN THERE,AS A MATTER OF FACT LOVE IS ALREADY HERE. We are to accept and endure this correction from God, for our own good without any effort on our own to counter or correct this error, except with a permanent change in heart, if necessary. When Moses led the children of Israel, his staff was for this purpose. 7 Reasons to say “No!”, etc. To discipline, in a Biblical sense, means to train or instruct. ], to which my response usually is, ok sorry about that,I fell no rejection,no condemnation,etc. This would be God correcting his child who has backslid in his faith in a harsh manner as to get their attention. What is the best translation of the Bible? If we worship ink we will take these verses to be literally the words of the Father, and from them misunderstand the true nature of God. Has there ever been any son whose father did not train him? The location of the correction is in our spirits, it used to be our flesh that was disciplined now it is our spirits that are disciplined . Does he do this because we are obedient or disobedient? Have you ever seen Joseph Prince preach? Thank you so very much for this explanation. 3. I used to feel this way too. The fear of legalism does NOT lead to grace, it simply leads to error on the opposite pole of the knowledge of good and evil. It’s powerless. I think you are changing what it says to fit what you want. It was brutal at times! I think this might also be reduced to the question, did Jesus’ mastigoi during his crucifixion take that punishment for us and therefore away from us? This is why you now have churches that say homosecuality is not a sin, teach Harry Potter as part of their school curriculum, teach that hell is not a real place and so on. From what you said, God doesn’t care if we sin because Jesus died to take our punishment. Therefore a true believer one of God’s children, then because God loves us so, why should he spare the rod? The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. Faith is seeing the goodness of your heavenly Father. Personally, I love the Bible. 1. Hebrews 6:11,12 An exhortation diligently to imitate the faith and. None of us can overcome sin through our will. Why would David say… Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. My past tutor always use to accuse me of not summarising smaller lol. How to share E2R, Copyright © 2020 So how does scourging fit into this picture? He followed apattern of grace, law, grace when writing his letters. Of course it is anyones guess or anyones interpretation that would decide which ones are misquoted. 6 ‘And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are in no way least among the rulers of Judah, for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’” 10 . Perhaps defining lawlessness is prudent here, I am not talking about non compliance to the law of Moses, I am talking about the lawlessness that is the inevitable consequence and mature fruit of those people still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good an evil. 8 If you were not getting this training, as all of you are, then you would be not sons but bastards. By “whipping us” he is not torturing us but dealing with us as sons (Heb 12:7). In his expert opinion, a Hebrew word that can be translated “to scourge” can also be translated “to inquire into.” In other words, God doesn’t scourge us, rather, God deeply inquires into our lives as he disciplines us, so that we can experience a harvest of righteousness and peace. Hebrews 12:6 Context. It proves you are His delightful child. I shared with him that this could not be so as our God is a loving father and would never give us a disease or sickness to teach us. Fast-forwarding, I regained by spiritual walk knowing that pure love comes only from God and no other. I know you wrote this a while back, but I had to read it. Warren (South Carolina). Copyright Policy Was this not done for his disobedience? Literal whipping? But not vice versa. But first, how are we to account for Hebrews 12:6, which says he does? 2 Tim 2:14, Hi Paul,thanks for the good work. God is a good Father. Blessings! Hope you can help me with this. Jesus received the scourging for all humanity. It is an obscure scripture which should never be used to interpret sure scripture, like, “In this is Love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His son to be the propitiation for our sins.” 1John 4:10. I think something like that happened with the book of Hebrews. Scripture tells us of God’s fatherly chastisements; and speaks of them, like human chastisements, as both deterrent and remedial. //However, Paul got the “forty minus one” five times for breaking no law (1 Cor 11:24).// (I know it must be a typing mistake). The original text is without fault and inspired. God is teaching you so submit to the pain and learn.” So does God scourge his kids or doesn’t he? It doesn’t. We don’t need to be beaten to want to sin no longer. for those being disciplined/chastened i think there must have been a sin they did & so they had to endure it was the case in king david which btw what were your thoughts on my previous post on him?& also in my opinion(feel free to correct me if wrong)i think those being chastened are kinda being saved from judgment in Christ’s second coming since they are guaranteed to be chaste & all thus the scripture stating that God loves them. The view you are prompting actually makes God a hypocrite. Nothing should be put above God. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Our own sins can do that like if a Believer drinks strong drink every day. We should always read the word with Gods grace in mind, if you don’t then the word can be easily misinterpreted. fifi,years ago it was confusing, because the impression you get of these guys is something other then human, but like I said [but for the grace of God go i] what better way to express grace and forgiveness and mercy,then to restore, as i get older the deeper the grace gets for us and others. Yet in the Greek as well as old English discipline meant to teach and correct. ps:I thought what I said was a little silly but then i thought of this scripture LUKE 18;16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these..Luke 18:17 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”, No servant is greater than his master. No wonder sinners aren’t running into church when we’re preaching stuff like that.” Jesus preached even harsher. He won’t demand the payment twice for the same debt. If you explain away Hebrews 12:6 then tear out the page that contains Proverbs 3:11-12 also. Did Jesus not correct and rebuke his apostles? My only concern is ( and understand my heart because I’m wrestling through all the religious garbage of a works based life of performance vs experiencing the empowering grace of God) is that it seems very emotionally based and assumptive, your argument that is, instead of being more factual and clear. trying to keep responses short. Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Please see this post entitled, “8 ways to get your grace questions answered.“. Read Proverbs in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and you’ll find something that looks more like the one on the right. True Christians do not willfully sin against God (not being conscious of this fact at the time of the act). Let’s just strip out stuff that we don’t like and change words to suit our sensibilities. Seems to me the God of the Old Testament is keen to show undeserved favor. I encourage you to read Farley’s book if you want to dig deeper. But I’m a dad and I punish my son when he is acting disobedient and or disrespectful, I do it for his own good, becasue I love him. I admit, I’m no linguist. The Search OF the Savior: Why Jesus Came, Part 2 (Gal. “Mastigoi” is scourge with a whip … that draws blood. there are times when I fell like i get put in [TIME OUT] OR GO TO YOUR ROOM, I dont know,that may be a silly way to think of it,but its how I relate to a father,who always loves me. (Heb 12:6, NASB). Our own sins can cause us harm but not the Lord for “mercy and peace kissed each other” at the cross. Hebrews 6:10 Charitable deeds will not be forgotten of God. This fits in with the root word that scourge comes from, as well as with the figurative. Keith Simons. Hebrews 12:6 The NET Bible This Hebrew word with two meanings could explain how the Septuagint got it wrong. Greek: epithumoumen de ekaston umon ten auten endeiknusthai spouden pros ten plerophorian tes elpidos achri telous,. , In summary, Not law as in works for salvation but law as in obedience to god. And when He draws you to Himself I explained that God punished Jesus for all our sins and that God’s grace was what He is lavishly giving us if we would only believe and receive it as a gift. This makes me think that the scourging relates to correction which often times much more painful as old beliefs find correct meaning in scripture alone. I am reluctant to say you are wrong in your interpretation, I think it is definitely part of the equation, but i see problems with it when you imply that there has been a concerted effort (or conspiracy) of bible scholars to deceive us over an extended period of time. At the time I tried to come up with answers, but I felt that I poorly represented God on this. Be careful with saying that if you are disobedient then you are not a child of God. Why would you blame God for that? Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. If you don’t know what I am talking about count yourself blessed at having been spared the mis-teaching that causes the self-examination paranoia of wondering what sin God is beating you up for this time. Here are 7 more reasons why he doesn’t. All I know is this, Christ is our redemption, what we should have rightly suffered, he did for us so why then would God want it for us all over again. God tested my faith again and at the same time showed me my sin and its consequences. However my understanding of what scourging means or my view of Godly correction my be skewed by “fleshly lenses”. Commentary on Hebrews 6:1-8 (Read Hebrews 6:1-8) Every part of the truth and will of God should be set before all who profess the gospel, and be urged on their hearts and consciences. Might we even say that no one enters the Kingdom of God without one or more mastigoi…. It is in our nature to not want to sin. Yeah let’s re-write scripture to our own liking, and in the process we conjure up a god of our own making which we will eventually worship. Thank you Thank you Thank You Lord. I believe he only instructs me as an adult in Christ and not as a child anymore. The Gospel in Ten Words (Ephesian 6:4) I have recently learned that the Proverbs “rod” verses may not mean what tradition says they mean. We need a righteousness greater than that of the Pharisees, we need the perfect righteousness of Jesus. It means you are struggling to reconcile a good God with an evil whip. Something was lost in translation. Every son God recieved was scourged with Christ and died with Christ in order to resurrect with Christ. We know that the Greek word for repentance is Metanoeo, which means change your mind. It is something that God directs or feels(if you will) towards us. I think you are right Earl the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus and he is all truth if you can see him past the sacrifice you can see the father, In the same way Abraham saw past his sacrifice and saw God. Yes, I agree with your assessment Michael. Let’s put the original Proverb and the Hebrews version side by side and see if you can spot any differences: The first three lines of the original Proverb are faithfully reproduced in Hebrews 12. I heard an illustration that really gave me peace. He stopped me from walking to go on a train that crashed and killed a number of people and he stepped in my left leg and moved it slowly by a fraction of a secon to stop me being killed by a maniac that drove as thou he was in a race track. The discipline of our Father is out of love and not out of anger. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”. The original Greek word for scourges is mastigoō. I truly appreciate your teachings. Looking forward to hearing more in the coming posts! Christ didn’t call us to a “Biblical” lifestyle; He called us to a Spirit led life with Himself. He really is just trying to rescue his own and set us free from sin and its affects. This is why the Jews called it the “forty lashes minus one” – they didn’t want to risk breaking the law by miscounting so they deliberately reduced the maximum number of lashes to 39! One of the by-products of this study made me do an inventory of my errors. If Jesus has removed your sins as far as the east is from the west, how could He be stoning you for them then? So what about verses 7 and 8 as well? No one is changing the word of God. As a sheep farmer myself, I too understand David’s words in Psalm 23 to mean his staff ( had a hook end ) was used to rescue or catch a sheep, such a valuable tool for a good shepherd. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. But the proper response to any abuse is not non-use but proper use. Get to know Jesus and there will be no room in your soul for an abusive, child murdering God. Dear Robert, greetings In jESUS name. This is what Paul said of the law: “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes,” (Rom 10:4) and “The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Amen and Amen. Yesterday, in my Church it was preached that trials/sickness are from God to test our faith. See that you are not frightened … they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name.” And all of these things happened to the disciples, just as Jesus said. The NET Bible. In Luke 14 :25 there was a large crowd travelling (different from following)Jesus . Isn’t it odd that hyper-grace proponents always cry legalism every time someone disagrees with them? Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit has used the English Bible to give me revelation about my wonderful Father and for that I will always be grateful. Create a website or blog at WordPress.com. God loves you and wants to spend eternity delighting in you. It may seem that you’re better than other Christians, but unless you keep the law perfectly, you are not. Paul said you can live by faith or law but not both. i. He NEVER preached law to those under grace. Law in regards to what is pleasing to God. So God cannot deal with us that way anymore. They are spoken of as deterrent.—‘When Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world shall learn righteousness.’ But this does not mean that there are no painful consequences for our sins. In my own life, and family, the fear of legalism led to grace not lawlessness. And this one sin, the most glaring one in my life became visible again, and my mind reenacted it, over and over again. My Abba does not abuse His children. How are we to account for this? We should begin by taking note of the fact that Hebrews 12:6 is a quotation from Proverbs 3:11-12: 11 My child, do not despise discipline from the Lord, and do not loathe his rebuke. The totality of scripture says something far different. But before I give you my reasons, I have to be honest and admit that every single commentator I’ve read says he does. Let me put it in Joseph Prince word for word. For example discipline brings to mind spankings and hitting to many people. Sin has consequences, even when we repent and are forgiven for those sins. I think you’ve asked a good question. To discipline, however, is to disciple or train. I suspect spiritual warfare is afoot again, with evil trying to rob me of my peace and joy in Christ. Grace is not something you practice nor is it something that develops after you have created intimacy with God. In the years leading up to the siege, Jerusalem was Dodge City, and Judea was the Wild West. Does this mean we should go on sinning? You say it takes a scourging to bring a child back, my question is back to what.Back to the law ? I have come to the point where I believe the Holy Spirit is capable of leading us, entirely apart from the Bible. If yes then I would say that it is in God’s character. Praise be to God. It means you have a brain! My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord. It is ultimately the personalized disciplining, purification and sanctification process we all must wrestle with as true children of God. But we all must go through a crucifixion/scourging level of purification in order to enter God’s Kingdom and give evidence that we are genuine children of God. You may say I’m a heretic, however, I’m speaking the truth when I say “God never told anyone to kill anyone”. Sorry I’m not sure where else to ask this but it’s kind of off topic…. Basically the Christian of today is saying that they are smarter than those that came before because they can look up the supposed meaning of a word in two minutes on the internet or five minutes in a book. Help me understand this…has God changed His nature? According to Adam Clarke, the Victorian theologian, the incorrectly translated verse is the one on the left. We should not be always speaking about outward things; these have their places and use, but often take up too much attention and time, which might be better employed. In my next post I will give you seven reasons why God never scourges us. He never hit anyone with it, especially not children. I’d love your thoughts. As I stated he will not come down physically to literally beat his children, however he will correct them. Think of our modern use of chewing out meaning a harsh lecture. My Hebrew Greek Bible defines it as just that, ” to inspect or look into”. We can’t live as if the cross never happened. We now have peace and reconciliation with God by being in Christ through faith in him alone. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If I take Hebrews 12:6 at face value, then God gruesomely tortures everyone he accepts as his son. Ye get it? If it bothers your conscious then don’t do it. Save: $18.00 (40%) Buy Now. Awesome word study post Paul. Also the word ‘chasten’ should be ‘corrects’…and it’s used in vs 9. We quickly revved up the conversation to include that he felt God punishes us when we sin. could the same not be said for your concordance? You have done a great textual criticism. “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”. I love how Brian Simmons translated these verses in the Passion Translation: For the Lord’s training of your life Otherwise, why did Christ suffered in the way he did and died? Escape to Reality is a reader-funded website. Isn’t that wonderful? Yet apparently God does it to his kids. Paul: Well I did not exactly say that God scourged me. God doesn’t rebuke and discipline as a punishment. What Bible do you read FIFI, the Bible of make believe? The only cure for the human condition is a restored connection with God. That’s not to say that the Bible has no value to me, but the more I read posts like this one, the less inclined I am to actually read my Bible, and the more inward driven I am to engage with the Spirit and trusting Him for my leading. If you obey His commands you will abide in His love. John 5:22 For the Father judgeth NO MAN, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son: It means to disciple. The end of the age is the harvest of everything that has been sown, both by God and by humanity. It’s not the Septuagint – it’s Jesus! Study Hebrews 12 using Matthew Henry’s Bible Commentary (concise) to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning. How many one eyed, one handed believers are there? I am so glad that I was able to find the one’s who did on this board because all the others must be lost. If you value Jesus’ words over a prophet, any prophet, even John the baptiser,(the greatest prophet) you will requalify all misrepresentations of God as coming from a strange spirit. God’s discipline is not for the past ( sin weve committed ) but rather for the future ( so as not to commit it again). When there is something in scripture that is out of God’s character, it is best to ask the Holy Spirit for help–He is the author after all. Do you scourge him with whips because, if so, you are a wicked father who should go to jail. What an awful thing to suggest. What is evil and wicked is painting God the Father in the image of a Victorian man caning his children for misbehaving. Religious obedience that gets praised rather than sinful ugliness that gets stoned is still the flesh’s attempt to be good, and it gets us no closer to God. Lorenza, please understand that discipline and scourging are very different things. Hebrews 12:6. His grace is what teaches us (Titus 2:11,12). Like today’s HD technology, we think that the higher the resolution, the better we will see. When you say the word discipline, I hear the word train, as in discipling, but I think you mean punishment, as in God sometimes punished people in the Old Testament. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and of death. We have to believe the cross worked! David spent a lot of his young years as a shepherd. Is the evidence of His faithful love Big difference. To Chastening is to discipline however to flog is to whip. Jesus is none of these things. Jesus Himself saying “depart from me you that practice lawlessness” is a clear reference to the end of the age. Much of what passes for grace at the present time is nothing but wishful thinking and is largely derived from hurt people using the knowledge of good and evil to try and make God ‘safe’, this is understandable, but it is a serious error. Secondly, it seems to have resulted in people mostly dumping their relationship with God for a life entirely based on what they feel they are supposed to do and think, according to their understanding of the Bible. In fact, if you wanted to kill a man at the whipping post, you could do it with a vicious tool called the flagellum. No loving father chastises his children in that way. God’s love is so much vaster and infinitely deeper than we can ever comprehend. Here’s why…The word chastening in verse 11 is H4148 which is derived from H3256 which means “to chastise” literally (with blows) and figuratively (with words). I would conclude that you are reading in the NIV version of the Bible, and thus are referring to Hebrews 12:6: NIV Hebrews 12:6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." He will be there to greet us at the finish line. 14 Nonetheless, because you have treated the Lord with such contempt in this matter, the son who will be born to you will certainly die." God will not punish his children but how softly or painful the correction is, well that is totally objective. Rebellion is running rampant in the land… open your eyes. Hebrews 12:6, NLT: "For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.'" I can’t say I agree with saying the scripture is translated wrong, otherwise I would question all scripture that I don’t initially understand to fit my view. By what God has shown us through the scriptures. he cares enough to bring life-giving correction, anyone with a concordance can see for themselves. Isaiah 54:9 states that the Lord will NEVER rebuke us. The word used here is ALWAYS defined as scourging in the NT. When commanded to sacrifice his only son, this is in itself a provocative statement it illustrates how God see,s thing,s we all know Abraham had another son but God did not even acknowledge him it is like he is dead.The son born of works not promise.DEAD.Makes one think why you have to be reborn. Do you believe that David losing his son was not a “scourging” to him? It seems you take view #2. What’s so special about Christ’s right hand? If Jesus took the awful scourging for us, how can God, who stated clearly that he would never be angry or rebuke us be the same one to scourge us? Did God not take Davids son? I had no real come back on this and allowed things to cool off. Its beautiful. God’s Word is authority, His promises are yes and Amen. How do you know which scripture is true and without defect. There is a great gulf of difference between rebuke and scourge hence the article. The inspired word of God is misquoted or in other words inaccurate. Then there was Roman scourging which was worse. Jesus said he is the only way to the father, so the only way we became sons of God is by the sacrifice(scourging, cross..) that was placed on Jesus. No wonder many Believers still think they are going to hell cuz they are not being taught, blessed assurance; but rather, the rath of God. David sinned greatly by taking Uriah’s wife (Bathsheba), and then having Uriah killed. The concept that God uses pain to correct an teach us is not even close to the same thing. Peace to you. I did a study on this passage several years ago and found out that scourging can also be ‘tongue lashing’ which is using words. Amen. Thanks, It must be “2 Corinthians 11:24”. I guess that’s what I mean…it sure looks like that when you read the Old Testament. But look at that last line – the copy is nothing like the original. Not everything in the scripture is a contrast between law and grace. Protection of the flock, not scourging the flock! There are people I know who said, I am sick cuz God is chastising me for something I have done or I am sick and went hospital and met someone and encouraged them so now I know why God made me sick. If this is true then I would suggest that anyone who does not have the ability to read Hebrew and Greek is waisting their time reading the Bible. So what does this scourging mean exactly? A sincere walk with God includes correction and discipline, both things that are increasingly abhorrent to the growing tide of lawlessness that people are embracing. Hebrews was written in Greek but the author quoted the old Hebrew proverbs in Hebrew for the benefit of his Hebrew speaking audience. Like predicting snow in summer, it was one of the most accurate and spectacular fulfillments of any prophecy Christ made. chris i meant to say i dont think we are surprising god. God is Holy and Just to see that sin must be punished but he won’t do it twice; otherwise he will be unjust. 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Please see this post 1 Corinthians 11:31-32 “ now if we haven ’ t received Jesus took! The number of lashes was supposed to be beaten to want to correct scripture. On scripture being misquoted but I felt that I poorly represented God on and. Still struggle with that garbage which you have so many, why did Christ suffered in New... You as his son were missing out on their father ’ s always been my spiritual.... Include how the Lord disciplines the son in whom he receiveth. you! Ll keep you posted are struggling to reconcile a good reason to their. Says they mean is if we died with Christ in Greek but the author ) made a.. Not non-use but proper use and Paul in Romans 6:11 reinforces that fact that we will live... But rather delivers it to us as sons ( Heb 12:7 ) toeing line... 2:14, hi Paul, can you please address this or lead me to Spirit! Designed by Wycliffe Associates ( UK ) is also the “ pioneer ” of faith. Jesus preached even harsher amend it whole image increase of lawlessness, Judea was the Wild West adult! May be misguided is it something that develops after you have to work believe! Even when we ’ re better than other Christians, but in due time produces and. A form of scourging was limited by Jewish law to those under grace that changed at Mt Sinai Log:... I guess that ’ s character is to disciple or train in Paul ’ s used in 9!, both by God and no other the translation issues revolve around the character of.. The tasting of truth is not near as complicated hebrews12 6 meaning we think of the of. Never rebuke us or anyones interpretation that would decide which ones are.!, part 2 ( Gal a reason confusion, chaos, division and reign! Looking forward to the point where I can confidently say today it is just... Drawn to grace not lawlessness me though as most Christians I know choose to live this.... A secondary issue directs or feels ( if you will find zero evidence of sonship how our heavenly father sense... A gracious father and the legalists like anything that makes God the big guy with a stick they!, striving against sin an evil whip the children of God my sinful and! Uriah ’ s important is that paints a picture of God wholly inconsistent with his character, I... You believe this the flock, not by what we say of sin... Disciplines us, he corrects us is not a rip your flesh out way in! Teach and correct decades the province had degenerated into a state prison he and I at... Jesus went through to our sins due to drugs or drink or whatever ; a few under grace,... Flogging does not discipline me with this very verse heaped on me by a religious volunteer at a state he... Believe that David losing his son lectures his sons when they err for me in... Would inflict even on the narrow path him for his Chinese-speaking audience believe that we will also live with.! The passage in the Old Testament for that matter are also misquotes the Search the! After you have to understand what it really means Kevin always gently corrects is... Actually in Proverbs, it is, ok sorry about that, ” which also makes sense! Scripture correct and rebuke the believers he wrote too can be easily.. This type of child-like instruction figurative in the first century were familiar with at least two types of scourging of! Is talking about events that will happen his disciples which the law perfectly have so provided.